So let's get just a little bit more creative about what's on our plates because that's what Marcel Dicke does.
About once a week, Marcel and his wife have what some might consider an unusual ingredient with dinner - insects.
DICKE: And it's something that we put, for instance, over a rice dish or in the vegetables or in salad.
RAZ: What do you buy, like, which ones?
DICKE: We have three species that are for sale in the Netherlands. That is locusts, crickets and mealworms.
RAZ: Yup - bugs, which, for the record, do not taste like chicken.
DICKE: Quite often, they taste like nuts.
RAZ: And you buy them alive?
DICKE: No. We buy them, at this moment, freeze-dried. You can bake them, or you can fry them, or you can boil them.
Marcel Dicke is an entomologist. He studies - and eats - bugs. And he's actually written a whole insect cookbook with dishes like...
DICKE: Pancakes with mealworms.
RAZ: And for lunch...
DICKE: A quiche with mealworms in it.
RAZ: And of course, dessert.
DICKE: Chocolate topped with locusts.
OK. Those dishes might be a little unusual. But eating insects actually isn't so strange, is it, because a lot of people around the world do so every day.
DICKE: About 2 billion people on this planet eat insects, so that's about 30 per cent that do that on a regular basis.
Even if you're not eating whole crickets or caterpillars, you are still eating insects. You just don't always know it.
DICKE: Every one of us eats insects. It's impossible not to eat insects.
RAZ: Even if we don't want to?
DICKE: Even if you don't want to. And I'll give you an example.
RAZ: Okay, please.
DICKE: Tomato ketchup? Now and then, there will be one tomato that has a worm in it. And, well, not all of those will be removed in the production process. And so a part of them will end up in the ketchup.
RAZ: So you’re saying that chocolate, peanut butter, noodles - almost any processed food has a small dose of insects. And in the not-too-distant future, do you think that we all might need to eat bugs out of necessity?
DICKE: The human population is growing very rapidly. It will grow to about 9 billion in 2050. How are we going to feed this world? We will have a third more mouths to feed. And as the world population is increasing, it’s also getting wealthier. And anyone who gets wealthier starts to eat more meat. A meat effect is something that costs a lot for our agricultural production because, at the moment, 70 per cent of all our agricultural land is being used to produce livestock. We can increase productivity a little, but we’ll still reach our limit very soon. We could do much better if we changed from meat to insects.
RAZ: So, you see insects not only as a good alternative to meat but as the future of food?
DICKE: Absolutely.
RAZ: Really?
DICKE: Insects are an excellent alternative because they need much less land than what’s needed to produce regular livestock. Livestock is so inefficient because for 1 kilogram of beef that you will get on your plate, you need about 25 kilograms of feed. Insects are doing a much better job. You need only about 2.2 kilograms of feed for 1 kilogram of cricket meat. So if we are going to be forced to produce food in a more efficient way, then switching from regular meat and livestock to insects is a very logical thing to do. And even in terms of calories, it's very good. One kilogram of grasshoppers has the same amount of calories as 10 hot dogs or six Big Macs.
RAZ: Professor Dicke, I see one pretty significant problem with all of this.
DICKE: What problem would that be ?
RAZ: It's gross, insects are disgusting. How could you eat them ?
DICKE: Yeah, that's the thing that comes to mind most often. But if you rethink it very seriously, you look at an insect - you take a locust or a cricket and you take away the wings and the legs and then you put that next to a nice shrimp - if you look at them, they're basically the same. And even from a biological point of view, they're very close relatives.
RAZ: But - (laughter) but I can't even - I'm trying to be mindful and imagining biting into a locust. And It's just, can't get there
.DICKE:
But when sushi was first sold in the markets in the United States, eating raw fish was not something well accepted.
.RAZ: Yes, that's right.
.DICKE: So, there are all kinds of foods that may not be easily accepted at first, but often they become popular over time.
.RAZ: That's true.
.DICKE: If we could overcome the cultural aversion in the West to eating insects, and if we ate enough of them to reduce our consumption of chicken, beef, pork, and lamb, what do you think would happen?
.RAZ: Hmm, interesting question.
.DICKE: I believe we would have a world population with a sustainable production of animal protein. And ideally, we would eat less meat. But it would also be good if we replaced at least some of our animal protein with new meats. This way, we would see a greater variety of foods on our dinner table and make life even more enjoyable.
.RAZ: That sounds fantastic.
.DICKE: Thank you, Jennifer. It has been a pleasure discussing this topic with you.
.RAZ: Thank you, Professor Dicke. This has been our show about food this week.